Johnson asks something like: Are we seeing another wave of backlash against young people using technology?

Jenkins: Never underestimate the ability of parents imagining their kids are dumb. Young people are early adapters of new media -- historically. Outside watchful eyes of parents. So parents fall back on how they were taught -- and have a conservative reaction. All it takes is one incident (a Columbine) and a moral panic sets off. And we "need to do something" even if we don't understand anything about it.

Johnson: We need empirical measurement of skills -- beyond reading -- to measure what kids are achieving.

Jenkins: The whole assessment/measurement of knowledge is wrong. It starts with the assumption that every child needs to know everything. But in community, it' more important that we all have different knowledge that when combined is powerful. Right now we're playing experts -- however in this hall there is a collective wisdom much greater than anything I as one person can know. Until we can develop assesment test that measure collaborative knowledge, we'll not be able to measure learning. Need a different model than current standardized test.

Johson: When you see a new technology, do you ever say, "This is meaningless."

Jenkins: The challenge is to understand why something is meaningful to the people who find it meaningful -- not what I may think. I may not be the targeted user. People aren't idiots. They are not going to use something because they're idiots. There's a reason. And it's usually interesting.

Johson: Lost or The Wire -- Which is better?

Jenkins: The Wire takes place on the TV. Much of Lost takes place online during all these attempts to figure it out. The complexity of engagement is multi-layered. Lost is the first glimpse of the future perhaps -- a new engagement. The Wire may be the last of a form of TV.

Johson: Lost amazes me -- how do people have time to do this stuff online? The time commitment. Clearly these people don't have kids.

Jenkins: I don't think we need to pathologized. As in, "What's wrong with these people?" We should turn this around. What's wrong with America that people with this much talent are doing things on their own rather than at work. Why are these skills so underutilized in today's work place. We're seeing people learning things in play that are being applied in other areas -- education, religion, even the military. As we develop these apparatus to share knowledge in new ways, how do we apply these to change society.

Johnson: Talking about "We are Wizards" which is playing exactly at this moment in another part of the building -- about "fan fiction" --

Jenkins: The impact of Harry Potter on writing, social networking, new forms of music outside the sphere of commercial music. Young people are learning to be political through what they've done with Harry Potter -- i.e., the freedom to write stories about Harry Potter. The Harry Potter Alliance is now organizing young people to get involved in social issues -- based on a story about a young man who stood up against authority. What young people did with this book -- moving from "play" to real world.

Johnson: The Dean campaign was a trial run, but Obama -- the appeal to youth and their involvement -- can you speak to that.

Jenkins: (I'm an Obama boy, he discloses.) Kids use the language of "We." Adults use the language of "I." Obama picked up on the language of We. Ceasar Chavez has the same slogan -- Yes We Can. Hillary uses "I, you" formulations. Obama is like a "stub on Wikipedia." We're going to work this out together. He has brought together a generation of young people. A new idea of a democratic collective. A circle around the candidate with a sense of ownership in the campaign.

Johnson: Civic media?

Jenkins: How do we build an infrastructure that supports civic engagement. (Refers to Putnam's "Bowling Alone" and it's discussion of the decline of civic engagement.) Putnam blames media, I don't. But even if you want to blame media, there is a new kind of civic connection through videogames -- learning collaboration, community -- that can be pulled back into the communities where we live.

Johnson: Outside.in (Johnson's company) -- The Internet is an urban enhancement device. So many bloggers writing about community. People care passionately about what is happening. People have an expertise about their neighborhood but it is not covered by media. Local bloggers cover it. Shows a screen shot of something called "On My Radar" -- Outside.in. It does this: I'm at this place, tell me all the "conversations" taking place around me within this distance...and then you can work your way out. We're trying to amplify those conversations. It's a hard problem to solve: The "pot hole effect" -- If a pothole is fixed on your street it's big new -- on your street. But a block over, who cares? Same with sports scores.

Jenkins: High school newspapers are shutting down because of funding, but young people are expressing more outside of school via Facebook, etc.

From the audience: Ratio of creation vs. consumption of media?

Jenkins: 50% of young people "create" media. It's going to keep growing. What about the 40% of those who are not? That's the problem. Those are not just technical inequalities, but inequality of skills. Also, we have a situation where the adults around kids who don't know how to "watch the backs" of kids -- of helping them understand the negative consequences of certain ways of saying things or expressing themselves in certain ways. Adults don't have the skills.

Johnson: Parents tell me they try to limit their kids "screen time" as if watching TV is the same as reading a book. You do so much different stuff with a screen.

From the audience: "Collective intelligence"

Jenkins: Collective intelligence has different models. The Levy Model (sorry, no reference) recognizes diversity of points of view, skill sets. Notion of neutrality of every voice being heard. YouTube idea of collective knowledge is different -- diversity is not supported. Diverse voices are hidden. All the "favorites" -- the top ones -- are determined ultimately by homogenius group (remember -- these are notes, not direct quotes.)

Audience: What about addictions to internet, games?

Jenkins: What experts are saying -- what we're seeing is depression and online activities are diversions from depression. Using the language of addiction to control people's behavior is used by Asian governments -- and more and more in the West.

Jenkins: The Internet is the solution, not the problem, with community. The Internet helps us manage the complexity of social relationships.

Audience: How do you balance commercial interest (of the technology companies creating social technologies) with the needs of the community -- or democratic culture?

Jenkins: Great question. We have to challenge the terms of these commercial interests. Like my problem with the terms of YouTube that hides diversity. I'm against commercial interest (commercial economy) that assume the interests of consumers and companies are the same -- creators of DIY media have to benefit as well as the commercial interests.

Johnson: "Progressive approach" -- There is reason for hope. These are the positive trends, so let us focus our interest on this.

Jenkins: We need to be aware of limits of utopian dreams, but still dream.

Audience: How do we get more of people's intellectual capacity into their workplace?

Jenkins: It's not that culture has dumbed us down -- it's the institutions. Most bosses don't know how much you could do if your were empowered. If they didn't start out with the premise that you are idiots. That's a critique I turn on society.

End.